Curse

Rikimaru · Jun 28, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I'm not real happy about making this thread, since i'm nearly positive it's been made before, but it isn't in the idea list, and search is down again. I Even tried waiting awhile to see if it'd be back later, and it still isn't. I Also tried looking around the forums myself and couldn't find it.

Hundred Blades needs a buff, it doesn't even have to be a large one. This is one of, if not the weakest elites. Does anyone else remember back when this wasn't elite? The only difference between then and now is that it had -20% damage on the attacks before, and it was only made elite because IW mesmers were abusing it. That -20% is only a reduction of 4 damage at most. The only reason some people even consider this skill is that you can gain an extra strike of adrenaline every 8 seconds (maybe more if you hit multiple people, i'm not sure), and you can spread bleeding or poison to multiple people with preperations and such. Those uses could almost just as easily be accomplished with Cyclone Axe, and I think that has a lower reset. Not only that, but even if you don't agree with the Cyclone Axe thing, it still accomplishes the same goal as before it was elite, JUST AS WELL AS BEFORE! Basically, that -20% damage being removed doesn't even matter, at all, for the things it's used for.

Here's an example of how I think the skill should be improved:
Hundred Blades: 5 Energy cost, 5 second reset.
Elite Sword attack. Strike target foe 2...4 times. The effects of any enchantments that take place on attacks have their numbers reduced by 1/3 for this attack.

If the skill was changed to work like this, it would still have all of the same uses as it does now; gaining adrenaline and applying on-hit effects like OoV. But it would be far less situational of a skill than it is now, and it would do more reasonable damage.
While 4 strikes against a single target is basically the same as 2 against 2 opponents, the reset time is lower so you can get the effects/damage more often, and you don't have to manage to get some complete idiots to stand practically on top of eachother.

Here's another suggestion to improve the skill that requires much less re-working:
Hundred Blades: 5 Energy cost, 4 second reset.
Elite Sword attack. Strike all foes adjacent to you twice.

With this change, the reset is at a level that is actually reasonable for the effect, and it's much easier to hit multiple targets.

Post whether you agree/disagree that it needs a buff, or how you think it should be buffed.

Nevin · Jun 28, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I agree it needs a buff, I'd say it needs a +3....15 damage bonus.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 28, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I actually think they might cut the recharge down to nothing. The skill is actually a solid one right now in AB or Aspenwood for getting adrenaline quickly (2 strikes * number of adjacent foes = potentially, quite a lot), but yeah, it shouldn't really be an elite in its present state if you ask me.

As far as the IW abuse, simply making the HB ignore it would have worked fine instead of totally destroying the skill.

Zephyr Jackson · Jun 28, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

I think they should make it with a recharge of 8 but have it adjacent to you not adjescent to your enemies

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 28, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr Jackson

I think they should make it with a recharge of 8 but have it adjacent to you not adjescent to your enemies

That would work as well.

Raxxman · Jun 28, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

This has been done before.

I'll try n recap the difference between CA, TC, and HB

Cyclone axe gains one strike of ad per foe hit, it activates around you and does normal dammage + a small amount, cost 5 energy and recharges in 5 seconds. Cyclone axe is not an elite

Triple chop gains one strike of ad per foe hit, it activates in a cone leading away from the foe hit, does +max dammage curve costs 5 energy and recharges in 10 seconds. Triple Chop is an elite.

Hundred blades gains two strikes of ad per foe hit, it activates in a cone leading away from the foe hit, does normal dammage twice, costs 5 energy and recharges in 8 seconds.

So comparing HB to the axe skills you quickly see its main advantage is for gaining energy over out and out dammage.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 28, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

So comparing HB to the axe skills you quickly see its main advantage is for gaining energy over out and out dammage.

i'm assuming you're talking about adrenaline and not energy?

audioaxes · Jun 28, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

should have 5 second recharge and maybe add a "cant be blocked/evaded" to it

Rikimaru · Jun 28, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

If you're fighting 4+ people at once and they're all right next to eachother for whatever reason (maybe they're all melee and attacking you, but you'd get raped pretty fast if that's the case) then it's a good skill to gain adrenaline once every 8 seconds, but not only is that aspect incredibly situational, but Dragon Slash is far better at gaining adrenaline, and that's also a sword elite. Also, considering that this is an elite skill, once every 8 seconds is pathetic.

-Edit- The reason Dragon Slash is better is that, while it only gives 4a +1 from it's strike (5a), it adds that to it's own charge. HB has an 8 second reset and can potentially (though rarely) give you full adrenaline. Now, HB gives more adrenaline than DS in that rare situation, but since DS charges it's self by 5, you only need to swing 5 more times to recharge it, and you attack at a rate of roughly 1.21. That's 6 seconds to recharge it, compared to the 8 of HB, and, it's completely un-situational and does this everytime, even against a single target. Not only that, but it deals +34 damage, and since that +damage ignores armor, it does much more damage against a single target than HB, even against soft targets. And I'm not even talking about 16 swordsmanship with all of this, this is just at 12, which even a secondary warrior can accomplish (DS gains from higher swordsmanship, while HB doesn't).

cup-o-noodles · Jun 29, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Wow, I was just thinking about this a little bit ago. HB should deffinatly get a buff, or be made into a regular skill. It's just ridiculous right now. If it gains a buff, then I'm not really sure what kind of a buff it should get. I'm just not so good at this kind of stuff.

Francis Demeules · Jun 29, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cup-o-noodles

Wow, I was just thinking about this a little bit ago. HB should deffinatly get a buff, or be made into a regular skill. It's just ridiculous right now. If it gains a buff, then I'm not really sure what kind of a buff it should get. I'm just not so good at this kind of stuff.

HB-IW mesmers will return to the battlefield again.

LifeInfusion · Jun 29, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

I think I started one of the original threads but w/e people bashed the idea that it needed a buff.

I still think it needs a buff, the reason being sword has no adrenaline gain or AOE that is viable and/or nonelite.

This is the only way to have effective vampiric/zealous usage. All the other sword skills hit one target.

Anyway I think they ought to just add a small damage mod to it, a +4-10 like cyclone axe maybe?

LamerFlamer · Jun 29, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

-Edit- The reason Dragon Slash is better is that, while it only gives 4a +1 from it's strike (5a), it adds that to it's own charge. HB has an 8 second reset and can potentially (though rarely) give you full adrenaline. Now, HB gives more adrenaline than DS in that rare situation, but since DS charges it's self by 5, you only need to swing 5 more times to recharge it, and you attack at a rate of roughly 1.21. That's 6 seconds to recharge it, compared to the 8 of HB, and, it's completely un-situational and does this everytime, even against a single target. Not only that, but it deals +34 damage, and since that +damage ignores armor, it does much more damage against a single target than HB, even against soft targets. And I'm not even talking about 16 swordsmanship with all of this, this is just at 12, which even a secondary warrior can accomplish (DS gains from higher swordsmanship, while HB doesn't).

And one thing you dont count is that with a furious sword, dragonslash has a chance of recharging itself afterward. Or at least getting close to recharging itself afterward. And I also agree that HB needs a buff, give it like +6...+12 damage.

BahamutKaiser · Jun 29, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

This just goes back to the situational nature of group and AoE damage, it plagues about half of the elementist spells and isn't something new. The fact that this can do alot of damage if you get it in the right situation makes it powerful, but like all AoE and Group damaging effects, it shouldn't cost "that" much more for a skill that has the inherent weakness of enemy possition, the duty and difficulty of getting several players at the same time is cost itself, and not a reason why it should cost more.

Until they make some more defensive classes and techniques which highly reward the tactic of staying in a tight group, these group attacking skills will continue to be a skill which only work well on the dumb.

As for actual balance of Hundred Blade, it is the same thing as triple chop, with 2 hits instead of higher damage, as well as a faster recast. This works well on several levels, first and formost is the combination of several hits with certain effects, Vampiric mod, Winnowing, Barbs, Order Support, vigorous spirit, anything that adds more damage to each hit will trigger twice as much with a dual hit skill, that beats Dragon Slash and Triple Chop. Hundred Blade is situational like just about anything in the game, but situations which depend on your skill build and party setup are not weaknesses, they are choices, situations you cannot control are weaknesses.

If your ability to use a certain mod, work together with a necro who can place barbs and Order, and a Ranger who will bring Winnowing, and maybe even a monk or someone with monk secondary brings vigorous spirit, your talking about a multihit madness build, the fact that this is a situation you can control makes it perfectly balanced, even if it is weaker in other situations..... of your choosing.

Rikimaru · Jun 29, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

The fact that you can only use it once every 8 seconds makes that double hit pretty anti-dramatic, even if you use stuff like Order of the Vampire etc. Also, not only is it incredibly rare that all of the enemies will be next to eachother, but this skill has an insanely low "adjacent" range, roughly half of what it takes for Horns of the Ox not to knockdown.
-Edit- And I don't think that there is any other elite in the game that is so situational that 1-2 other members of your team have to be running a certain build for the skill to even be mediocre.

BahamutKaiser · Jun 29, 2006, 03:54 AM // 03:54

I could probably look for some elites, but I can point out every DoT spell in the elementist build which requires the use of slowing skills to keep them in the effect for more than 2 hits, if even 1.

I can also point out that you can bring several stacking skills on your own, like Mark of Pain and Barbs, or Winnowing, having a party build is a plus because certain people can focus on a little bit of attack improvement wile each can still cover themselves, but it is certainly possible to have a Warrior/Ranger, with Wilderness Survival, Winnowing, and even a pet to take advantage of the stacking effects+provide a corpse.

They could do something like change it so it does one hit on all enemies adjacent to you and adjacent to your target, but then you may not be able to hit everyone around your enemy twice. Also, this doesn't require adrenaline, comparing it to other adrenaline moves which can be reused quickly doesn't count, this is an on demand skill, you can use it right away, and will likely have energy every time it returns, gaining adrenaline for your other attacks.

This may not be your favorite skill, but it isn't bad, with proper use this skill can be a great technique to use along with other skills, probably the only significant issue is that AoE damage isn't Warriors specialty, and trying to get alot out of his AoE skills may be difficult, It certainly isn't going to be easier than Elementist.

unholy guardian · Jun 29, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

i agree it kinda needs buffed.. ugg it should be a normal skill but yeah iw

Rikimaru · Jun 29, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Well, I don't think I can agree that those skills would even make it a great or useful skill without seeing the real numbers. Order of the Vampire adds like 17 life steal, but it lasts 5 seconds, and HB has a 8 second reset, so it would only wor together once. Winnowing adds a pathetic +4. Mark of Pain works the same on any attack, you would get much more out of it by using Flurry. Barbs also only adds +4 I think, and I'm pretty sure it only works on a single target anyway.

Now, against an average AL target, each hit from HB does around 15 damage. Add on all of those (which is a pretty insane situation), and you get two strikes of 40 damage, a total of 80 in a small AoE. Now, that's a pretty rediculous situation, for a decent effect. How much does a straight, no-buff version of Tripple Chop do? Roughly 50 damage in a small AoE at rank 12 (16+34), 60 at rank 16 (18+42). How much does Tripple Chop do with the same insane buffs? 75 at rank 12, 85 at rank 16.

Hundred Blades typically does two strikes of 15 (30), while Tripple Chop typically does 50-60. Is one extra strike of adrenaline and 2 seconds shorter reset worth half damage? The actuall difference is not a major one, but it's obviously weaker. That's why I suggest something somewhat small, like a shorter reset.
You should also take into account that Tripple Chop is already a little bit weak, because of the incredibly small AoE it and HB shares.

-Edit- The reason we aren't mentioning things like Apply poison, is that they work the same even if you use Cyclone Axe.

I'll Make a chart showing the numbers, using every single one of the buffs Bahamut mentioned; Mark of pain, Order of the Vampire, Barbs, Winnowing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Hundred Blades- -Tripple Chop-
Target- -80 -75/85
Adjacent- -140 -105/115
Vs. 2- -220 Total -180/200 Total
Vs. 4- -500 Total -390/430 Total
Normal Vs Any #- -30 Each -50/60 Each

Ulivious The Reaper · Jun 29, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

you could always go warrior/ranger hit on some apply posion hundred blades then sever have a mesmer iwth epidemic in your gorup bam victory is mine

mylite · Jun 29, 2006, 07:17 AM // 07:17

A sever mesmer? I'm assuming you mean with IW, however you miss EVERY attack with IW, therfore no adrenaline, therefore even if you had adrenaline you would miss, but anyways this is what I'm thinking.

Hundred Blades (5 energy)
hit target foe all adjacent foes ect ect
this cannot be blocked or evaded,
+6-25 dmg, for each foe hit this disables hundred blades an extra 2 seconds
which means if you hit 5 foes it would be a 10 second recharge ect
or....
Hundred Blades
hit target foe all adjacent foes ect ect
strike for +6-15 dmg
recharge 6 secs

That's my opinion on the skill, it really does need a buff bad.